Ghostcrawler on Trinket and Metagem procs in 5.2

Ghostcrawler: Below are the scary guts of the new trinkets and metagems. This information is for theorycrafters. You don’t need to read this to understand how the mechanics work or enjoy their benefits.

Trinkets

Agility DPS

  • Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 105 sec ICD.
  • Renataki’s Soul Charm – 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.
  • Talisman of Bloodlust – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
  • Bad Juju – 0.50 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. Voodoo Gnomes are mostly for flavor; they deal ~200 damage before armor per hit.
  • Rune of Re-Origination – 0.46 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD

Legendary Metagems

  • Capacitive Primal Diamond– 15.00 base RealPPM on landing melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. At 5 stacks, fires Lightning Strike, which deals [280 + 75% AP] Nature damage. That base proc rate is multiplied by an additional coefficient by spec:
    • Beast Mastery: 1.604
    • Marksmanship: 1.594
    • Survival: 1.449

[source]

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#Acherus: Why is the PPM different by spec considering that realPPM is supposed to give every class/spec roughly the same proc rate already? [source]

Ghostcrawler: Three reasons. A) RealPPM procs still scale more frequently with haste, which many specs have drastically more or less of. B) The proc that it gives you in this case scales directly with AP, which many specs have drastically more or less of. C) It’s not terribly uncommon for A or B (but not usually both) to occur on a trinket, and we can swallow that much variance. And there are typically other options for trinkets if one underperforms for you; there isn’t here, and we want the legendary metagems to be equally awesome for everyone. [source]

Jalopy: Why does the trinket note that it can stack if the RPPM isn’t high enough to allow it to in the first place? [source]

Ghostcrawler: RealPPM isn’t an ICD. Note that the stacking Agi trinket is only 10 sec duration, whereas the stacking Str trinket is 20 sec duration. And remember that haste increases the frequency of procs. Neither of these is expected to stay at max stacks very much of the time. It’s more that it can quite often proc again while it’s already up and by letting it stack, that becomes an awesome occurrence, rather than a disappointing one. [source]

Mendenbarr: Can the Capacitive Primal Diamond cause a critical strike? [source]

Ghostcrawler: Yes, but it uses your spell crit/hit rates. [source]

Question: Can you at least clarify how Rune of Re-Origination would work? Wording on the trinket is not very clear.

Ghostcrawler: Warning: technical mumbo jumbo follows.

At proc time, it checks how much crit, haste, and mastery you have (yes, this is a snapshot, and does NOT include the mastery raid buff). It finds which is the highest of those 3 (tie breaking rule: crit trumps haste trumps mastery), and gives you a buff of +[sum of lowest two stats] to your highest stat, and -[lowest stat A] and -[lowest stat B]. For example, if you have 6000 mastery, 3000 crit, 2000 haste, and the proc goes off, it gives you a buff that provides [+5000 mastery, -3000 crit, -2000 haste]. It does not continue adjusting that buff as stats change during its duration. Yes, this means that if you have a temporary buff to a stat that is not your highest (even with the temporary buff), and that temporary buff falls off during Re-Origination, you *could* end up with negative rating. In this obscure edge case, negative crit does reduce your crit chance, negative mastery does reduce whatever it normally does, and negative haste is ignored. [source]

Updates 2/14/13

Pullo: Is this RealPPM calculated differently due to being on crit rather than being on hit?  Does it account for a characters crit chance in the 1 RPPM or is it just a 1 RPPM that procs on a crit? [source]

Ghostcrawler: Currently, no, the fact that it only procs on crits basically doesn’t matter for more than flavor. However, we’re considering making these multiply the proc chance by your crit chance, so that they get the “more crit = more procs” effect that all proc-on-crit trinkets have had historically. Like I said yesterday, one of the reasons we haven’t posted all of these numbers til now is that they’ve been in flux as we make adjustments like this. This is one such change we’re still considering. [source]

Pawkets: Could you clarify on what trinkets you’re talking about specifically? To me “stacking agi trinket” would seem to be describing Renataki’s Soul Charm yet the context of the statement seems to indicate you’re talking about Talisman of Bloodlust / Primordius’ Talisman of Rage / Gaze of the Twins.

I was under the distinct impression from the tooltip that Renataki’s and the Feather worked Kiril style where as the others worked Spine trinket style (except for on RPPM instead of a guaranteed chance to proc). [source]

Ghostcrawler: Sorry for the confusion, I was indeed talking about Talisman of Bloodlust, Primordius’ Talisman of Rage, and Gaze of the Twins. They all are just RPPM random proc chances, and if the buff is already up when you get another proc, it refreshes and stacks to 2 (or 3, etc).

Renataki’s Soul Charm, Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun, and Wushoolay’s Final Choice all proc a buff that automatically gains a stack every 2 sec (and have ICDs such that it’s not possible for them to proc again while they’re already up). Also, this is a good time to note a nuance with Delicate Vial of the Sanguinaire: its proc’d buff can stack just like Talisman of Bloodlust, Primordius’ Talisman of Rage, and Gaze of the Twins, up to a max of 3 stacks. We didn’t note that in the tooltip since (apart from tanking large packs of mobs), it would be extremely rare for it to happen. [source]

Purge: Esentially, this makes it worth roughly ~half of a generic trinket of similar ilvl, because the proc isn’t adding any itemization, unlike every other trinket in existence. Additionally, since secondary stats synergize with each other, the proc is actually a rather large DPS loss for specs that have good secondary stat parity.

If there were agility specs that had huge discrepancies in secondary stat weights (i.e. best stat is 3-4x+ the average value of the worst two stats) then maybe someone could find some use for it, but, as far as I know, community theorycrafting indicates that this is not the case. [source]

Ghostcrawler: This is a tricky one to balance. As you say, it doesn’t actually increase your total stats, it just converts your (presumably weaker) lower secondary stats into your (presumably stronger) higher primary stats. The larger the difference in value between your best secondary and worst secondaries, and how much of those weaker secondaries you end up with on gear, all factor into this. For many classes, haste/crit/mastery are all actually relatively close in value (despite how much some people scream that stat A is “utter garbage” and the like). In that case, this isn’t much of a DPS gain, on average. However, there’s another nuance to this that complicates things further: many classes can game the proc somehow. Just to pull a random example out of thin air (this may not be a big gain, but it illustrates the point), as an Enhancement Shaman, you could try to line your Ascendance up with a Mastery Re-Origination. This is definitely one where we’d love to see more theorycrafting. [source]

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